Listening session with Bill Adair, remembering Hunter

SHABAZZ-EL: Yeah, and so, welcome to Remembrance listening session. Today is October 28 [2020]. This is the four o'clock session. And we're here with Bill. So to start this session, we're going to use a little PowerPoint to sort of guide us. And first and foremost, before we even do our introductions, we have to make sure—Bill, we're recording this session, and do we have your permission to record?

ADAIR: Yes, indeed.

SHABAZZ-EL: Perfect. We may plan to use some actual footage from this session for the project in some way in the future. Do we have your permission for that, as well?

ADAIR: Absolutely.

SHABAZZ-EL: Okay. And one last question: did you get a chance to complete your anonymous demographic form?

ADAIR: I did.

SHABAZZ-EL: Perfect. Okay. So we'll go ahead with introductions. We'll tell you a little bit 00:01:00about the program, and then we'll give you some parameters about, you know, some of the things we want you to share. And then we'll give you, like, 12 minutes to share a memory about whoever the person is, and then we have a couple of program questions we need to ask you, before we end.

ADAIR: Got it.

SHABAZZ-EL: And then I will send you a link—a thank you note and a link, where you can receive a very small donation—I wish it was more, because this turns out to be a lot of emotional labor for a lot of people—but we'll send you the link for the compensation form.

ADAIR: Okay.

SHABAZZ-EL: So our introductions are going to go like this. We're going to say our names, where we're geographically located, our pronouns, communities we identify with, and maybe even one lesson from the COVID—one lesson that we would learn from COVID outbreak. So I'm Waheedah. I am located in Philadelphia, in West Philadelphia. My pronouns are she, her, and beautiful. Communities I identify 00:02:00with are people who've been with HIV, LGBT communities, communities of faith, formerly incarcerated people, people who use drugs. One lesson that I've learned from COVID is how much we really need to depend on one another to survive. And so I've learned that it's—yeah, it really does take a village to get through this COVID outbreak. So I'll pass it on, and Eddie, you want to introduce yourself?

LOWRY: Yes. My name is Eddie. My geographical location is in the Wynnefield section of Philadelphia. My pronouns is he and him. Communities I identify is formerly incarcerated, LGBT, recovery people, and also older folks [laughter]. 00:03:00And the one lesson I learned from COVID: man, I can't say it's just one lesson because I've learned more than one. It's just, it's like a wake up call, you know? Not to put religion on anybody, but, you know, I'm a Christian and they say these days were coming, you know? It has the government—it has the whole world baffled. It has them baffled, you know what I mean? And they said—this going to—it's coming, man, when they going to be lost for words. They ain't going to be able to do nothing about it, man, you know, so hopefully, you know, people just have some adherence, and pay attention to what's going on with them. You know what I mean? Teach the young people, man, because the young people is the ones that's struggling. 00:04:00I work with young adults, so I know I gotta tell them every day to put their mask on: "don't come out here with no masks on, 'cause I'm going to shut you down," you know what I mean? So, but um, yeah. That's it.

SHABAZZ-EL: Thank you Eddie. Bill!

ADAIR: So, yeah. So, my name is Bill and I live kind of right at the edge of the Gayborhood [Philadelphia]. That's where I am right now. And my preferred pronouns are he and him and his. What was the other—?

SHABAZZ-EL: Communities you identify with, and one lesson learned from COVID outbreak.

ADAIR: Oh right. It's right there on the screen, sorry. Communities I identify with, um. 00:05:00I identify as a creative, and with communities of creative people; identify with the queer community; identify as anti-racist, and as a feminist, and try to seek out those communities and definitely feel a part of them, at least virtually, these days. And speaking of that, I guess the lesson—I feel like my big lesson from COVID has been how much I love my friends, and how much I miss them. 00:06:00I mean, I have been, you know, seeing some friends, just, like, in little tiny groups. We'll meet on Camac Street or, you know, I'll meet my friends online or whatever, but it isn't the same at all. And I've just been reminded what social creatures humans are and, like, how much I've depended on those kinds of connections just to feel human—normal—and, you know, and able to get by. So I miss my connections with my friends, honestly.

SHABAZZ-EL: Thank you so much, Bill. You shared a lot. I feel like I know you very well. Thank you.

ADAIR: You're just getting started, Waheedah.

SHABAZZ-EL: Great. So we're going to let Eddie tell you a little bit about what Remembrance is, and then we'll move from there.

ADAIR: Maybe I better put my glasses on so I can actually read the screen. How about that?

SHABAZZ-EL: Yeah.

LOWRY: All right. You ready? 00:07:00Okay. So Remembrance—whoa, what happened?

SHABAZZ-EL: Did something happen?

LOWRY: Yes. It just disappeared.

SHABAZZ-EL: Really?

LOWRY: Yes.

SHABAZZ-EL: Okay, let me stop sharing and start sharing again. Let's see what happens here. Can you see it?

LOWRY: Nope. Funny thing is that I can hear you.

SHABAZZ-EL: Okay, that's—

LOWRY: Oh, let me do this again. I don't get it.

ADAIR: Yeah, I can see the screen. I can see the screen and I can see Eddie in the corner of the screen.

SHABAZZ-EL: Yeah.

LOWRY: Wow.

SHABAZZ-EL: I can see you too, Ed. I'm going to go ahead and start this.

LOWRY: I can't see you 00:08:00 guys.

SHABAZZ-EL: Really? Well, you want to go and sign back in—come on and sign back?

LOWRY: Well, that's what I'm going to have to do, I think.

SHABAZZ-EL: Okay. We'll go ahead and get started. I'll let you back in.

LOWRY: Okay. All right. Cool.

SHABAZZ-EL: So, we'll just go ahead and get started. Remembrance—what is it? Remembrance will be a memorial to Philadelphia and the HIV/AIDS crisis enacted through civic and theater performances and oral histories. It's a project of William Way LGBT Community Center and its John [J.] Wilcox, Jr. Archives, in partnership with artists, activists, and community leaders. There are several components—there are a number of components—Let me let Eddie back in—there are a number of components to Remembrance. Hi!

LOWRY: I'm back.

SHABAZZ-EL: All right. Can you see the slide?

LOWRY: Yeah. You want me to finish?

SHABAZZ-EL: Yeah. Why don't you do this slide?

LOWRY: Okay. There are numerous components to Remembrance. One of the components of Remembrance is a community listening tour, 00:09:00which we are doing now, to gather untold accounts of community members who are now deceased—oh, come on.

SHABAZZ-EL: Community members who are now deceased by—had lived with HIV, who may have passed either unnoticed or uncelebrated. The collected stories we gather today will be added to the John [J.] Wilcox, Jr. Archives. Also, there's going to be a dedicated portal on the William Way LGBT [Community Center] website, and the input we've received from community members will be vital to shaping a memorial to HIV and AIDS in the city of Philadelphia—sorry, you can't see the screen, Ed.

LOWRY: I got it now, baby. I'm back.

SHABAZZ-EL: Okay, so I'm going to go ahead and continue. So there's a team—we do this as a team. We have a program coordinator who is Chris Bartlett, the deputy director of the William Way. The grant writer's actually from the William Way. The faith leader is from Philadelphia FIGHT. Community engagement 00:10:00coordinator—that's me. I also work at Philadelphia FIGHT. We have about three—at least three facilitators: Eddie is one; we have a woman of trans experience; and we have a young gay white man who's another facilitator. There's an artist to this project, and there's also a play writer. So in the [unintelligible]—well, we've been doing this now since May, so sometime, I guess, around June, we'll start getting remnants—we'll start seeing what the play is going to look like, but everybody who makes the contribution is going to be invited to opening day of this big—it's going to be real big production.

ADAIR: Excellent.

SHABAZZ-EL: Yeah. And so we want to see if you have any questions before we keep going, Bill.

ADAIR: Nope, nope. Makes sense.

SHABAZZ-EL: Okay, so here are the parameters. Eddie's going to be timekeeper, I guess. When you get to around 12 minutes, Eddie might give you—like, put two fingers up, or snap—you're going to snap at him? Okay, he's going to snap at you. All right, okay. 00:11:00But what we want you to do is tell us what you want the world to remember about this person. We want you to talk about their struggles, their hobbies, what they liked, their family dynamics, and any stigma that they faced because of their diagnosis. And talk about their resourcefulness, their resilience as well. If this person you're sharing about wasn't open with their HIV status, feel free to give them a pet name, feel free to give them a nickname. What we want is the story, the remembrance of this person. So we're going to go ahead and allow you to talk, and we're going to let you talk for about 12 minutes. We may have some probing questions afterwards, but just tell us to start off with—Bill, who did you want to talk about today?

ADAIR: My friend, Hunter.

SHABAZZ-EL: Hunter?

ADAIR: Yeah.

SHABAZZ-EL: Okay. Tell us about 00:12:00 Hunter.

ADAIR: Wow, I just felt like—I just felt, like, this sadness just saying his name out loud to you. I wasn't expecting that. I haven't thought about Hunter that much in the last few years, so it's good to think about him again. He was very, very young. I met him probably in 1989, and I was in my 20s, and he was in his late teens: he was 18 or 19. And he worked at TLA Video, which was my 00:13:00local video store. And I got to know him by going in there, And we would chat and flirt every time I went in. It was like, you know, one of those perfect, kind of, like, professional friendships, in that, he would give me ideas about movies to rent, and he got to know what movies I like and he would start saving them for me. And when I come in he would be like, oh, I can't wait to show you this movie or tell you about this movie. And then eventually, I was, like, recommending movies for him, and movies for him to buy for the store, to recommend to the manager to buy for the store. 00:14:00And I was always super nervous about going in the porn section, like, the gay porn section. I was always so freaked out about doing that, and having him there made me feel like—we would make a joke about it, and he would make me at ease about it. Not that I went in there very often or anything, but, you know, like, when I would, he was very cool about it and made me feel comfortable. Anyway, eventually, we took the friendship beyond the store, and we'd hang out and we'd talk movies. And then 00:15:00one day, he just disappeared from the store. And, you know, he just wasn't there anymore. And I had his phone number, and he wasn't answering my calls. And I—you know, it was before cell phones, so—I can't remember if I'd get an answering machine or whatever, but I couldn't, get in touch with him. Like he—I lost contact with him. And, eventually I thought, you know—I asked people at the store, and they would be like, you know, it's private, we can't, like, give out information about our employees. And eventually I found out from someone else who had befriended him 00:16:00at the store that he had become sick and he was at his mom's, and she had prevented him from being in contact with any of his friends. She didn't want him—she was super ashamed of his illness—and she didn't want him to be in contact with any of his queer friends anymore. Eventually, I did find his phone number, and I called him at his mom's house and talked to him once, right before he died—and his voice was, you know, super soft. And we talked about movies. And 00:17:00I think, you know, I think I cried a bunch on the phone, and he did too. And that was the last time I talked with him. And and his mother, you know, wouldn't invite any of us to his service. I don't know if he even had one. And it was just this really bizarre experience of having someone just—because of all the shame around HIV—just kind of, like, disappear from the universe. And he was, like, trapped in his mother's house, and she was ostensibly taking care of him in the last few weeks of his life. But it resonated with me really profoundly, and it makes me really sad to this day—and miss him, 00:18:00miss talking about movies. And I don't think I went in TLA Video for, like, a year after that, or two, because I couldn't go in. I missed him. So this person wasn't even that close of a friend, and it had such a huge effect on me. There are other people that were closer to me that did die, but for me, he's always represented, you know, just the sheer numbers of people that just kind of disappeared with AIDS and HIV, and that the world, you know, will never get to know, and lost.

SHABAZZ-EL: That's why we having this. That's why we have these listening tours.

ADAIR: Yeah.

SHABAZZ-EL: Because we want to capture—we don't want the world to—every life is valuable. Can I ask you a couple of questions about Hunter? First of all, let me ask you, is the 00:19:00TLA Video—is it still around? Was it a bookstore? Was it a video store? Is it still around?

ADAIR: It's not anymore. It existed until maybe five years ago, but it was a giant video store at 15th and Locust.

SHABAZZ-EL: Oh, okay.

ADAIR: Eventually it went the way of all video stores. I think they now,TLA Video now is a distributor of queer films.

SHABAZZ-EL: Oh, okay. Did Hunter have any partners that you knew about?

ADAIR: No.

SHABAZZ-EL: Okay. And what did you like beside movies—what did you guys talk about besides movies? Did he like to dance? Did he like music? Could he sing?

ADAIR: He was a very, very cool, sexy 00:20:00 dresser.

SHABAZZ-EL: Okay.

ADAIR: I remember that about him. [laughter] I was such a frumpy, like, little preppy dresser at the time and I was like, ooh, I want to grow up to dress like you, even though he was 10 years younger than I was.

SHABAZZ-EL: What was his race?

ADAIR: He was Latino.

SHABAZZ-EL: He was Latino, okay. Yeah, you wouldn't have told—you'd never told us that. But that's fine. That's good to know. Particularly, like, we want to make sure that we capture Latino community as a part of these stories.

ADAIR: He was.

SHABAZZ-EL: So, can I assume that they were Catholic? That his mom was Catholic?

ADAIR: Yeah.

SHABAZZ-EL: Okay. And she wasn't having—I heard you said you was—let me say some of the things that I've heard you say so far about Hunter. I heard you say he was very, very young.

ADAIR: Yeah, he was 19 when he died.

SHABAZZ-EL: Nineteen when he died. You had the perfect professional friendship. He was really cool and made you at ease 00:21:00when you wanted to go into the porn section of the bookstore [video store]. You'd like to—he liked to talk about movies. All of a sudden, he disappeared. You couldn't get any calls in. Eventually you was told that he was sick. What were you told when they told you he was sick? Of course they told you he had AIDS. And so you all talked about him having AIDS? Or HIV?

ADAIR: He and I talked about it, yeah. I mean, when I was—yeah, when I was told that he was sick—I honestly don't remember who told me that he was sick—but I was told that he had AIDS. And HIV. And I don't know if I knew that he was HIV-positive. 00:22:00I don't remember if I did, before he got sick.

SHABAZZ-EL: It never came up.

ADAIR: But I knew. I knew, you know—after he disappeared,. I suspected—that's not the right word—I imagined that he might have gotten sick. I worried that he might be sick, that's the right word. And it turned out to be true. I mean, because at the time, you know—this was 1989, right? So—

SHABAZZ-EL: Right.

ADAIR: We were all walking around thinking at any moment that we could get sick. And so, you know, if a gay friend disappeared suddenly, I mean, that was just—it was logical to assume that they had gotten sick.

SHABAZZ-EL: You have any pictures of him?

ADAIR: I don't.

SHABAZZ-EL: Mm-hmm. You mentioned that—you said you didn't go to his funeral or memorial. Do you know if he had 00:23:00a funeral or memorial? Do you know which one he had?

ADAIR: I don't even know if he did. I think his mother just cut all of his friends off. I don't know if—you know, I'm assuming he had a Catholic funeral. I have no idea.

SHABAZZ-EL: Yeah.

ADAIR: She just didn't want to have anything to do with us. I had to, sort of—we had to sneak around to talk.

SHABAZZ-EL: Yeah. You said he was trapped in his mother's house.

ADAIR: Yeah, that's the view I had.

SHABAZZ-EL: She was keeping him away from everybody. People he wanted to be—people he wanted to communicate with and be around. I'm so sure. That must have been very hard for him.

ADAIR: Yeah, I mean, and I remember feeling really frustrated and helpless about not seeing him.

SHABAZZ-EL: Yeah.

ADAIR: And, I don't know, I honestly don't remember if that was because—I mean, I remember that he lived in New Jersey, like over the bridge somewhere—and I don't know, I don't know if I didn't see him—Like I maybe—I don't know if I could have snuck in there and said, hey to him. 00:24:00I don't know if I had the courage to do that. I don't even know if I did. I know that I wanted to talk with him. But I was—you know, I was so freaked out about AIDS and HIV at the time. I'm not sure if I went out of my way to try to see him. I don't remember.

SHABAZZ-EL: Yeah. Do you know if he went to school for anything? Or, like, did he have a major?

ADAIR: Yeah he went to—ooh, sorry. I'm still here—yeah. He was in film school, I think at Temple [University]. I think at Temple, yeah.

SHABAZZ-EL: Great. Did he drive a car?

ADAIR: I don't think so.

SHABAZZ-EL: Okay. Eddie, did you have any questions to ask? I've just been fire-bombing—I've just been rapid-firing questions at Bill.

LOWRY: I just want—one question I have to ask, right—it's just kind of funny. 00:25:00But remember the part when he was talking about, you hated to go into the—

SHABAZZ-EL: The gay porn section?

ADAIR: The porn section, yeah. The gay porn section.

LOWRY: It kind of—"what?!" It kind of reminded me of this Kevin Hart movie when he talked about how he was out of town for a while—there was a movie, and he went into this X-ratedthing out there and then he felt bad because he came out with the black bag, looking like—

SHABAZZ-EL: The little black bag? [laughter] I remember the little black bag.

LOWRY: Yeah, and it kinda reminded me—'cause I'm the same way, when I used to go into things—like, I haven't bought movies in like 15 years, but I'm saying when I did—

SHABAZZ-EL: That's a lie, but go ahead. That's my husband you talking to. That's a lie. [laughter]

LOWRY: So look, I used to walk out with the black bag, right? I used to be looking around, see if I see anybody I know.

ADAIR: Oh, yeah, totally. Totally.

LOWRY: That was funny when you said that part. 00:26:00That just kind of—

SHABAZZ-EL: That's why you laughed so hard?

ADAIR: It's funny. It's funny, because I mean, it felt like it was a double stigma at the time.

LOWRY: Oh, yeah. Right,, right.

ADAIR: Like, it was not just, it was—I mean, porn is much more commonly talked about now than it was then, right? I mean, everybody knows that everybody watches porn online now, right? So you might as well just talk about it.

SHABAZZ-EL: Exactly.

ADAIR: I mean, so it's not really—I don't know, but that was, what, over 30 years ago now.

SHABAZZ-EL: Yeah.

ADAIR: Or about 30 years ago. And it was just, like, there was a little bit of a stigma of, you know, going in to get—getting porn. It was, like, behind a black curtain and everything.

SHABAZZ-EL: Yeah.

ADAIR: You know, and then it was, like, going into the gay porn section—oh boy. Like, sin upon sin. And, yeah, he did always—he was like, you know, I'll watch the front door when you go in 00:27:00 there.

SHABAZZ-EL: I can see why you said he was just such a cool person. You said he was really cool. He made you feel at ease.

LOWRY: He sounds like he was a real cool guy.

SHABAZZ-EL: Yes, it sounds like he was.

ADAIR: He was. He was lovely. He was just, he was just lovely. I mean, what I haven't said is that he was absolutely beautiful. You know, I remember that as a physical thing. But I also, I just remember being like, you know, just kind of delighting in his presence. Like, he was just charming. He had everything, right? He had everything: he was beautiful; he was really smart; he was funny; he made me at ease. You know, I think I had a giant crush on him, but, you know, he was a teenager and I was 29, so. I mean, I never really thought of him 00:28:00as a date, really? Even though I think he had a big crush on me. Yeah, he had a big crush on me. That was the other thing. And I loved that he had a big crush on me. Like, I was super flattered by that. Anyway, I didn't really—I think, though, the age—I don't know, at that time, the age difference really mattered—you know, I don't know. It's a lot of different—even though it was only 10 years, that's a pretty big difference in, you know, life experience: The difference between 29 and 19.

SHABAZZ-EL: Yeah. In those days, I think it was. I don't think so much today.

ADAIR: No, I would, like, go out with a 19 year old now, but I wouldn't when I was 29.

SHABAZZ-EL: So, I was going to ask 00:29:00you, what was the one thing you wanted the world to—if you had one thing to say, what would you want the world to remember about Hunter? But you just said a lot of things. You just said he was charming. He was beautiful. He was smart. He was funny. You said he was everything.

ADAIR: He was, he was, he was.

SHABAZZ-EL: So I was going to ask you, but seems like you just—you already told me.

ADAIR: It was this extraordinary sense of loss. Like, oh my god, this incredibly amazing person only made it to 19.

SHABAZZ-EL: Only made it to 19, yeah.

ADAIR: It was, you know, the definition of a tragedy in my mind.

SHABAZZ-EL: Yeah. Well, Bill, listen, we're going to be stewards of this story and make sure that it gets to the Archives, and it becomes a part of this entire Remembrance project. We're going to switch gears, if that's okay. Are you okay?

ADAIR: I am okay. Yeah. I'm sad, but that's okay.

SHABAZZ-EL: We're going to switch gears. We just have a few questions to ask you before we close out.

ADAIR: Sure.

SHABAZZ-EL: But we just want to just thank you, really, for just bringing Hunter to this project, to Remembrance. And we just have a few questions to ask 00:30:00you and we ask everybody these programmatic questions before we end the session. Ed, can you see the screen?

LOWRY: Yes, I can.

SHABAZZ-EL: Okay.

LOWRY: Okay. A few questions we have for you—do you remember when you first heard of HIV and AIDS? And what was it—what was that like?

ADAIR: Well, I was in college, and I was part of a little, like—we were these, like, little baby gays. I was, like, 18 or 19, in college. I guess HIV really came on the scene in about 1983. Is that right? That's about right, right? '82, '83, into public consciousness?

SHABAZZ-EL: Okay.

ADAIR: And I—so I was in college. 00:31:00And I remember—there was a guy—there was a counselor at college who was in charge of helping the queer students, and he talked to us about it. And he, you know, talked to us constantly about safer sex. And so it was part of my coming out process, I came out into the world of HIV and AIDS as a young gay man. So I don't ever remember being gay, being identified as gay, without AIDS being there. And it was before anybody—it was before anybody knew, really, how it was transmitted or what the implications were. So, you know, it meant, like, sex was scary always, you know, when I was coming out. It was just like, yeah, you get to have sex now, but you also, you know, might get to 00:32:00 die.

SHABAZZ-EL: Yeah. Okay, so the next question is, do you remember the first funeral or memorial service that you ever attended for someone who died from HIV? Can you describe that?

ADAIR: Yeah. It was for my friend, Steven. And it was at St. Joe's Catholic church, or Old St. Joe's in the city [Old Saint Joseph's Catholic Church]. And at the time, I think Old St. Joe's was one of the very few churches that was having funerals for people that had died of HIV. And,you know, so everyone was, like, grateful to the priest, and this priest was, like, known as a good priest. But I still remember from the sermon that he was, like—he talked about how Steven 00:33:00had gone to bath houses and probably contracted AIDS through going to bath houses. I mean, it seems like a weird thing for a priest to be talking about.

SHABAZZ-EL: Yes.

ADAIR: Anyway, I remember his basically saying that Steven regretted the actions that he did that gave him AIDS. I mean, that's what I took away from it—like, you know, Steven was a wonderful person, we're sad he's dead, and he made a lot of mistakes, and that's how he got AIDS—and that's why he had AIDS.

SHABAZZ-EL: So, was that a funeral or a memorial? Was Steven's body actually there? Do you remember if that was a funeral?

ADAIR: I think it must've been—I think it must have been a memorial. I certainly didn't see Steven's body. I know I didn't see it.

SHABAZZ-EL: Okay. Ed, you want to take the next 00:34:00 question?

LOWRY: Has the current COVID-19—

SHABAZZ-EL: No, the other one, before that.

LOWRY: Oh, I thought she was talking about that. How would you memorialize those lost to AIDS in Philadelphia? What would a proper AIDS memorial look like to you?

ADAIR: By the way, sorry, I just—it just occurred to me. Hunter was also Native American. He was Latino and also Native American.

SHABAZZ-EL: Okay. Great. Okay.

ADAIR: Part of what made him so freaking beautiful. Um, anyway, how would I memorial—you know, you guys are doing such an amazing—I love the idea of doing performance. I love the idea of doing a vigil, of doing a march, of, you know, there being, you know, movement and a chance for all of us to not just sit down but us to take walks together. I really, I mean—I've heard that that's part of it and I think it's great. I'm really looking forward to seeing the 00:35:00performances. I don't know what—visually I don't know what a memorial should look like other than that, you know, I'd love to see people's names. Because it is about these, like—you know, Hunter was just one dude, one dude that died among, like, you know, millions, right? And he was 19 and he never got to live this life, you know, that he could be living right now, as my friend, you know, talking about movies and whatever. He never got to experience Netflix with me, and stuff like that. And so, just, like, anything that can really remember that these people were individuals. These are not just stats, right?

SHABAZZ-EL: Would you like to see it outside? Would it be inside? Would it be something that was stable? Or would it be something that moved around?

ADAIR: It makes sense to me that it would be outside. 00:36:00And I like the idea of it moving around.

SHABAZZ-EL: Okay, something with movement and outside?

ADAIR: I mean, I thought the quilt was great. I'm sure that brings up, I'm sure that comes up a lot. I mean, it is, you know, it is the most perfect memorial ever. You know, and that was obviously, kind of, moved around. I like the idea of it being, you know, in a park, where I could go whenever I wanted. I could go take my lunch and have lunch with Hunter, or, you know, my other friends that, you know, that are gone. And, you know, there's also, you know, the other—I'm sure you could tell from the story, that, you know, it was pretty traumatizing. It was very traumatizing 00:37:00to come out in the age of AIDS. And I feel like part of what I memorialize is like, a sense of safety, which I never got to have in my youth, in my gay youth. So, I still struggle with that grief, with feeling like, you know, I never got to have sex without being terrified of it, when I was in my 20s. And, you know, it still very, very much affects me, and I know it affects other, you know, guys my age, of course, and older and even younger. But,so, that's part of the memorialization for me, is memorializing, like, my lost youth, as someone that, you know, that—a feeling of safety—so, yeah, along with—obviously along with the lives that were lost. I would like a place where I could go and just try and move through recovering from that, which has been a lifelong 00:38:00 process.

SHABAZZ-EL: Thank you for that. We've gotten so many types of ideas about the memorial. We do plan to ask Pew Foundation [The Pew Center for Arts & Heritage] for more money to actually make this memorial come to light.

ADAIR: Good, yeah. You should.

SHABAZZ-EL: That is our plan. So we want to go with all these ideas, and thank you so much. The last question that we have for you is comparing the COVID—the current COVID-19 health crisis. Does it brought back any memories to you of the early days of HIV? And what is that like for you?

ADAIR: You know, it's not, it hasn't really compared with me. Maybe the first few weeks when none of us really knew exactly how it was transmitted, and, like, you know, afraid—every time you go to the grocery store, you're afraid. You know, like, that kind of fear with COVID only lasted a 00:39:00couple of weeks, and then, you know, and then it was pretty clear how you could avoid it, and, you know, how you could take care of yourself. With HIV it was, you know, years and years and years of having no idea if, like, the person you were kissing was giving you AIDS or if you were, you know—accidentally shared a glass or something like that, you know. I mean—sorry—I'm here—I'm here.

SHABAZZ-EL: Yeah, you're still—

ADAIR: So, it doesn't compare in terms of the depth of horror and grief in my own life. I mean, I haven't had anyone close to me die of COVID. I think I would feel differently if that were the case.

SHABAZZ-EL: Wow. Totally makes sense. Thank you so much. We just want to thank you for your open, honest sharing. And thank you for bringing Hunter to us. Thank you for adding the things you added on 00:40:00about him being a Native American as well as Latino with his beauty. You told us you didn't have any photos of him and that's fine because you gave us a photo, you gave us a beautiful photo of him from the inside out. So, we want to thank you for that. If you know anybody else that we need to be talking to, just spread the word and tell them, hey, this is a good thing to do. I have a list of emails I got from John and Darius. I got another list from Chris Bartlett. And so I'm reaching out to people—that's probably how you and I met—so if you know anybody that needs to, that may want to share a story, just drop me a line. I'd be happy to reach out to them. And so what happens now is that, yeah, I'm gonna send you a letter. I'll send you a thank you letter, and a link for this compensation right after this session. And I want to just thank you so much, Bill.

ADAIR: My pleasure, Waheedah. My pleasure, Eddie. It was really great.

LOWRY: Nice meeting you, Bill!

ADAIR: It was a pleasure to meet you, Eddie. Thanks for doing this. Thanks for your hard work and doing it so thoughtfully.

SHABAZZ-EL: It's a pleasure to have you, a pleasure to have you. It's a two-year program. We've been doing this now 00:41:00since May. They were supposed to be done—these were supposed to be face-to-face. [content removed]