Interview with Roy Hayes

REED: Can you tell me a little bit about your early life?

HAYES: Well, you know, I came from West Philadelphia. My grandparents raised me. My mother had—eight, I had eight brothers and sisters. My mother died when I was 8 and she died from tuberculosis (TB) because she had twins and one of the twins died. Then a year later she had triplets, so she died from that while she had my grandfather raise me. Because my father wasn't in my life coming up. And I guess when I met my father maybe for the first time when I was—I must have been about 13, 14 when my sister got killed. He finally came and I found out 00:01:00who he was because my grandparents back then— It was the kind of family that whatever happens in the house stays in the house and we didn't talk about it. So, and really back then I didn't really know what happened nor did I ask them. You know, and I kept things. I always was a shy kid. I had a sister who used to always be my protector—I always call her my protector because I was the one that used to have to pay a nickel to keep guys from beating me up, you know? Even as a child some things happened in my life. I remember when I was 8, I was sexually molested by one 00:02:00of the deacons in the church and these were some of the things that you couldn't tell nobody. You know? Because I remember he said if you tell somebody he's going to kill me so that went on for about a month; went back and forth, he done what he want at the child of 8 years old and so—back then I guess I had an identity crisis if I was gay or straight. Coming from a religious family, being gay was an abomination. Going to church. We went to church mostly, seemed like every day. Grandmother was a minister, came from a very religious background; so, as a child if anything happened in my life, it really was hard. 00:03:00And also I remember again when I was 12, I had a brother who was a little older than me, who, I guess he went to alcohol and he used to, when he got high, used to call me a chump and everything. He used to have sex with me. And then again I couldn’t tell nobody, so even coming up as a child, that haunt me, you know. When coming up even though it led me to—I remember—and also I went to what you call the OB class because I was tongue-tied. So, I remember going to Catholic school and then what happened was, we could not afford to pay the tuition so we went to public school. So by me having a speech problem, they put me in what you call in an OB class for me to, like, 00:04:00sit up, and draw pictures, and ride the yellow bus and all that. I always thought that I would never accomplish anything. I remember when I was coming up I got working papers when I was 14. I worked for this Jewish store because the families were having a hard time and I worked for them. I cared and I wanted to help out the family. And I remember when I was 17, they sent me through to be a butcher and then I met this girl and we had sex. So I thought that by having sex with her, it was, "Hey! You're not—you straight, you not gay," you know? And that didn't happen because even with that girl, her mother liked me so her mother sent her 00:05:00away so that was the end of that. And then I wanted to go in the Army because I figured that going to the Army was, you'd be a man and get away from the family. Not that my family was hard, it was just, they were like strict. I guess they done the best they can. And I remember, I took the test and I was about ready to get drafted into service and back then you could write a letter to your congressman and say you helping your family out. So when I got on the bus to go to Fort Jackson, I quickly got orders that they sent me back home, you know, that my parents knew the ministers and they wrote for me to come back home. 00:06:00And even though I guess, I don't know if that was a good thing or a bad thing, but I really wanted to go to the service. So I came back home. I got a job working in—before that I was working a store but what happened back then, it was a lot of things going on in the neighborhood, what you call the Black Panther Party. They was going around. People couldn't really understand. They was like going in the store and they was feeding the poor especially the white, Jewish store. They used to come in there, take what they want and everything. So he went out of business. So I got a job working as a guard and I was working, you know, part-time at the private agency for Temple University. So I worked there for a while then I became the maintenance department for Temple University. Back then your kids would go to college free and you could get a good education. 00:07:00So I moved there and then I start working in one of their plant down in North Philadelphia giving out material to all the other maintenance departments. I guess I was like, because I always said when I got old enough that I was going to move out of my grandmother's house. And I bought my grandmother a house because I had a good credit union at Temple University. And I left my grandma's house and so I started hanging out. I start, you know, drinking and smoking reefer and stuff like that, and doing the things that I guess a person do. And I always was a people pleaser even back then. I was shy and I used to pay girls to be with me because I didn't want people to know that I was gay. And I remember, when I 00:08:00was 21 years old—and they always tell you, never leave your drinks on the bars, stuff like that. And I remember going to the bar, giving the bar maid money and I was buying my own drink and I remember—I guess—all I remember is that I was strapped down in what you call the Philadelphia General Hospital, that was one of our city hospitals for Philadelphia back then. We don't have a city hospital now. With the Hospital of Philadelphia, you go there for good care. And I was strapped down; they said somebody had put some acid in my drink and I guess that was really hard. I used to have this thing called hyperventilation. When I couldn't cope with a problem, I used to make myself pass out. I used to have to carry a paper bag with me. And then I had a good job, I tried to go back to work but I couldn’t work, so eventually my grandma said, "you need to go back to church," and I went back. 00:09:00So eventually I kept on drinking; so after going in and out of mental health hospitals and stuff I went back to church. Then I became a deacon in the church; I went back to the family church. Then I became an ordained minister; and then I tell you that this girl that I first had sex with, I remember preaching one time. I used to be an evangelist preacher in different cities and stuff. And I remember coming down from the pulpit and she came and I see her. I say, "Hey Diane," because I haven't seen her for years. And she had this little boy with me and so I say "hey" to the little boy. She say, "Yeah, guess what—Little Roy," you know? And I said, "Damn," you know, "we only had sex one time." Didn't know that 00:10:00it would only take one time. So back then, I was happy, you know. I said, "Look. I have a kid," and back then in an African American family you took care of your kid. So we got married, then I end up having a daughter. And what happened is, the church changed. Everybody heard, you heard about a guy and a person made people drink the poison and everybody moving to that—cult. It was like a cult. So the minister used to tell me he wanted to be with my wife and used to have us minister to the other sisters of the church and told me to sign my house over to my grandma. So I thought it was the right thing and even though my wife got pregnant and God told him to—wherever he bound down here, God 00:11:00bound in heaven so she had an abortion. I challenged him for that because I figured that he wasn't telling me the right thing, because I remember coming home one day and I caught my wife with one of the other ministers of the church. What happened then, I guess my life really changed. So I thought about that maybe I was gay, and I had a history of using drugs anyways so I tried to commit suicide. I drunk some coke and some cocaine and stuff like that there. And I remember, my life started going down the drain—in and out of institutions and stuff like that here. So I start hustling in the street. 00:12:00One thing about being an addict, sometimes you want to get high and higher, you figure that if you use, all your problems would go away. You thought, just for that moment.So then I guess about being in and out of institutions, felt like crap, hustled right down in this neighborhood here in the park. All the things that I did have, I lost them. Tried to go into treatment and then what happened is, I started using from reefer to cocaine. That's when I was introduced to heroin. I started shooting heroin. I guess my 00:13:00life started really going down and then I tried to get clean and really again go into long term treatment. I had electric shock; that didn't work. So what happened is, in '82 I tried to—I went into treatment— Before that happened, before I went into treatment, I tried to jump off the Benjamin Franklin Bridge. Back into treatment again and still hustling on the street. Where I got the HIV I don't know. I really don't know, you know. Because you done—I done anything to get that drug. And I remember in 1984 I came into recovery again and I got a job working down at DRC [Department of Rehabilitation and Corrections], working with ex-offender people who've got out of jail and stuff like that there. And I remember, like—I used to go to the blood bank back then. I remember going to the blood bank back then. I remember going to the blood bank back in 1984 even before I got clean again because it was to help with the money and they told me 00:14:00that they couldn't take my blood. So I ain't never go back until later on I found out in 1987; I had seizures real bad and I went to the hospital in 1987 and I remember this doctor coming in, they say he's an infectious disease doctor. And then back then they said, "Hey, you're HIV"—or GRID they used to call it back then—"you'll probably be dead in six months. Here go call for the suicide hotline and go to this agency." So I tried to go a agency, and back then it was the white, gay disease and I went there and—I don't know. Maybe because I was an addict, but they said that I wasn't sick enough so they told me about this place called BEBASHI [Blacks Educating Blacks About Sexual Health Issues], you know, Rashida Hassan [now Rashidah Abdul-Khabeer]. And I went 00:15:00there and I met this other lady named Gwen Johnson. She had a little office over at BEBASHI over on 15th Street and she had a couple clients. So I started getting case management by Gwen Johnson. And then they told me about this little Japanese guy named Kiyoshi [Kuromiya]. So I remember we was going down there, they hooked me up with the doctor; and I remember there was a shellfront for We the People down Broad Street and Temple Minner and Kiyoshi was there. They was just started 00:16:00and then they were going on—I thought it was a trip. They took me to this ACT UP meeting and I didn't know what was going on. And I remember them, they had just came back, they was having the legal people there; they talked about all this. So I thought it was a trip because they gave me this We the People t-shirt and said, "Hey, you going to DC." And asked me did I have any warrants and everything. "No." Then I remember going to DC and I remember Kiyoshi said, "Lay down." I didn't know that I was going to get locked up; I thought it was a trip! You know? And, and I remember that when I laid down, you know, I look around and there wasn't too many African Americans. I think we were going about the drug. Back then AZT was the only drug out there and it was like $8,000 for one pill. Was one pill, 00:17:00it was the same cancer pill that, you know, only cost $0.15 to make. Pharmaceutical companies were making a lot of money from that so we was going to DC to try to lower that price. And what happened was—then I noticed something. Even though I was going through a whole lot—because even before that—let me step back. Even before that, when I was dying, when the doctor told me that, I did go home and waited for a whole week to die, because he said I'll be dead. So I stayed home and waited for death to come, you know, but it never come until they told me of going down there. And then I seen that: hey, they weren't too many African Americans out there. I couldn't understand that I'm the only one. So I came back and then I came and then Kiyoshi said, "Hey, well, we need for you to try to help get this together."So I tried to go back to work and I couldn't work so I started hanging down at We the People, 00:18:00doing some work there and everything. And I got involved, that was one of the best things that ever happened to me: being able to be a part of ACT UP Philadelphia. And being able to find out how to—you know, sometime I just felt that, I don't know, and I couldn't really understand that—why. Then I start volunteering at the Craig Foundation even being a person with HIV, I used to be a volunteer case manager. They sent me to AACO [AIDS Activities Coordinating Office] for some training and stuff like that. Even though a person without no degree, but my experience. But I realized that working for the Craig Foundation, and for BEBASHI, and We the People, people was dying. I remember going to the nursing home and people said, "Hey, 00:19:00the family don't like them." The family didn't like them, they was eating out of a paper plate. Because I remember back then, when I went to different places people was feeding me, a lot of times my family was doing the same thing or washing with Clorox bleach. I remember speaking at a church and the minister didn't say who I was but as soon as he said, "Hey, this is Roy Hayes from We the People," something, "living with the virus," and stuff like that, people used to start running and start washing their hands. And that was really horrible. That was really horrible when I went to church and people used—mothers used to tell me that the pastor told me to send my son away because he got that plague. That was really hard, you know. Even knowing somebody—I could understand that, you know, remember HIV, how you could prepare people to die, you know because people didn't want to die alone. And 00:20:00that's what really got me to: death could be a peaceful thing. By just holding their hands and tell them it's going be okay. That's why I do what I do now. You know, that's why we came.The Craig Foundation went out of business, so I came over here [Philadelphia FIGHT] and Jane [Shull] gave me a chance to be a case manager, the first open HIV case manager at the Lax Center when it first opened up. Me and Alan and stuff. That's why I stay around here. Sometimes I realize that, hey, I get tired but sometime I guess God got me for a reason and that's why I do what I need to do. That's why I chained myself to the White House fence. I done all these things not 00:21:00just to brag to get it in the paper. It just shows that it's things that we need to do. And I find that right now, sometimes people so selfish. I hear people say, I got mines, but you realize that people still are dying from HIV. Even though people could live a long period of time, but we still have a fight. And sometimes I tell people, we still got to fight for discrimination, people who's incarcerated. We was able to allow people to use the ID because when they go to get medical—because a lot of time they couldn't afford to get an ID card. So we, through ACT UP, we done a whole lot. Through ACT UP, a lot of these places are still open. A lot of the services are open that protested for housing and stuff but sometimes 00:22:00realize that a lot of time people with HIV and AIDS, they forget that, you know, there's still a fight. And I tell them, "I got mine—uh-uh." And I try to be an example. I'm 67 years old, you know, living with the virus over thirty-some years. T-cell is a 1,000, which, I could be dead, but I realize I keep fighting. I was able to go to the National AIDS Conference, able to stand up in front of thousands of doctors, scientists, and tell them to break their language down because people couldn't understand it, and Kiyoshi who was my mentor, 00:23:00who told me, you know, to do that because that—I am smart. Today— You know, I got married. I met this girl from Nigeria, and I don't know, because I thought she could make me straight. It was the wrong thing to do but I had a nervous breakdown—that's why I couldn't be a case manager here. But I stay around here. But through that I was able to— Sometimes you could do some things. It might be, you think that people done wrong to you, but through that I was able to help her family. It took a while to realize that—the part that I play in it. She had eight brothers, she had 36 brothers and sisters, you know. And she was able to come over here and get her nursing degree and go back to help her family in Nigeria. So through the negative thing that happened, it came to be 00:24:00a positive. It's so much—it's just been a hell of a journey, you know? I think about dying. I know it's going to happen but I know it could be a sweet thing and I try to live the best I can. And still that's why I stay down here. I work ten hours a day here. I run support groups. The support group has been around for almost going on 29 years now. I started the support group over at the Craig Foundation for the same reason when I first tried to go to the agency, I realized that by me being an addict—because a lot of time when people was an addict, they couldn't get the service. Or people who were homeless. There was a group in Southern Philadelphia, 00:25:00it don't matter if you gay, straight, homeless, nasty, and dirty, people need to have a place to go so they could get education about the virus and stuff. And that's what I do.

REED: Do you remember the first time that you heard about HIV or about AIDS?

HAYES: Well, I—you know what, I—when was the first time I heard about it? Know what, I think I heard about it really clearly for myself when the doctor came in and told me about it. Because I always thought it was a white, gay disease. You know what I'm saying? "Not me, not me." I said, it's a white, gay disease; I couldn't get that. A lot of people thought that, especially African Americans. But I found out 00:26:00that so many people during the history that this disease been around a long period of time. I dug through history about the first person in Philadelphia; first person who got it and how it was going. And even though so many people still dying from that, even they were too— Kiyoshi, when people didn't use their medicine, we used to take the medicine and be able to send the medication over to different countries. It might not have been the right thing to do but people needed to do it. I mean, Kiyoshi was—I don't know, he—whatever you need, Kiyoshi had it. He was the first person that smoked reefer, I know, on TV. Knowing that smoking reefer really will help. It help people appetite and stuff like that. A lot of times people ask me, "What about medical marijuana?" It took me a while by being a recovering addict but I realize that if it helps people, I ain't got—it's just like taking a medication. If it help people to do it and people don't abuse it 00:27:00and stuff like that, I think it's a good thing. And I remember, when a person through ACT UP, he fought for marijuana in Pennsylvania and we finally going to happen. We have one of our members from ACT UP Philadelphia always said—every time we have on the agenda, "Let's talk about that! We need to fight for marijuana!" And we finally got it, you know, we finally coming to beat a path. So a lot of things, finally got—we always talk about the one pill because people got tired of taking all these different pills. You go to people, people know what that pill look like; and they finally got that you could take one pill a day and it's good to live to see that; that you don't have to take all these pills that people used to take—all these 00:28:00pills that people have to have the diarrhea, you understand what I'm saying? You know, the wasting and stuff like that. People really are living longer. But we still need service; we still have to fight. We still short of housing—because the one thing about HIV housing, when it first started, as far as housing for people who are living with AIDS, people was only living like one month to three months and they would die and then somebody else go in their slot. Because sometime we living on the same slot. You might have a couple more the government give us but it's still, a lot of people still need housing, you know? And you have to realize that—my thing is that 00:29:00I used to be a part of the Campaign to End AIDS. I was a co-chair from this region, from the Northeast region of the Campaign to End AIDS and you have to realize that we have a thing and I tell people that— Sometimes people think, "Hey, 'cause I'm HIV and AIDS, I need social security." No, I think the best thing to do is, and I tell people that if you could work, you can. Because I say work is the best thing instead of waiting for a check, and that's what a lot of people don't realize 'cause you get time. People come to the support group and I tell them "Hey! If you able to work, if you think about me, I'm able to work. I work like 10 hours a week; I might get social security for other health reasons that I have, but if you are able to work, I say work is the best therapy that you could have." Because you know a lot of time people 00:30:00who are HIV positive are still working. So I think that's really good because you have to realize that you might—even with housing, if you able to pay your rent, you wasting a house that somebody might really need it. You understand what I'm saying? So you got to realize like that. With that, even working with the ex-offenders, we work to—ACT UP, we work for condoms in the Philadelphia jails. I was part of that thing. They're trying to—because people was having sex in jail. We were able to—we have one of the—Leon King, he was the commissioner of the Philadelphia prison, allowed them to have condoms in jail because they was having sex. Not so much HIV—other STDs. So we was able to use that model, the Philadelphia model, to have that. Also involved with—New York was the first to have a needle exchange. We were part of Philadelphia 00:31:00to start that needle exchange. Give people clean needles. People have to realize that we give people—even when that came out we don't just say, "Take this clean needle," but make sure when you give clean needles, give that person a choice—if they need to come to treatment, they can. But you can't make—same thing like me, you know? I was in and out of the fellowship 'til I got ready. But the day that you find out that needle exchange do work because people is going to get the clean needles. People is picking up these clean needles and stuff like that so it's—and also before helping them with medication that could—because over in Africa, breastmilk, people feed babies by the breast. So we was able to create something that they could use, a pill so they could feed their kids by breast. Also you realize that they got some stuff that, medication that, a woman could shoot up 00:32:00her vagina, keep from—because her husband, certain countries, they don't put no condoms on. If something wrong with you, or even a lot of the women over in Africa, they used to have some different guys over in Africa used to go and rape women. They rape these young girls over in Africa, so we able to give them some protection to protect them. So it's a long, long way to the things that we help through the different chapters of ACT UP Philadelphia. You know, being able to sit down with scientists. And right now, if this epidemic is going to ever end, Paul Kawata from 00:33:00an organization down in DC, it's going to be people with AIDS. We are the ones going to be able to come up with solutions with that. A lot of times the doctors talk. We the ones that have the answers. We are the smart people, you understand what I'm saying? We know how we feel, we know what our needs are. For the first time—and they realized that. We need to be at the table and that's what happened. A lot of these different places that we didn't even know were—President Obama he got a lot of people with HIV. A lot of people who are gay and straight and all like that, but we don't just work for that. We work for all the trans community, and that's great, and I like that. You understand? So 00:34:00it's just so much that through We the People, 'cause We the People used to be a place that you could come and be able to—it was a safe space. White, gay, straight, poor, whatever. Christmas time through New Year's we used to open up all day, the whole weekend; the whole weekend so persons could have a stay. We used to have a support group down there. We used to have a TV; you'd have a nice dinner for them. We used to have case manager service for them. It's a shame that we don't have a We the People because sometimes people suddenly need a drop-in center to come. We was able to work with the shelter system because people was kicking people out early in the morning. And people couldn't—they didn't have no place to keep their medication. So right now they throw away the medicine, they don't take their medication. But back then, people know what AZT is like. But back then, the Crixivan, they had to keep that in the refrigerator. So people 00:35:00used to get put out early in the morning and we were able to work with the shelter to make sure they were able to have a safe space to go that won't put them out.

REED: What was your first involvement with We the People? Do you remember how you learned about them or—?

HAYES: I learned about them through Rashida Hassan, through BEBASHI. They told me, go there—it was nothing down there! It was just Kiyoshi was down there and I went down there and I tell you, ACT UP was planning—I thought it was a trip and that was in 1987. And I've been involved ever since and I'll never forget that. It was a trip and I just started coming down there because I wasn't 00:36:00working and I just start coming down here. Then I was the second president at We the People for two years. I was the president of We the People. We create a board. We also [unintelligible] store. We had a housing project, we had apartments upstairs, subsidized housing for people right down the corner from where it's at now. I think the houses is still down there now. Yeah, the housing corporation. We had so many apartments that people who was subsidized could live at. We had so much. We had a doctor, where people could come down there, get their T-cell count there. We had a doctor used to come down there once a week and see people for free: free healthcare through Philadelphia FIGHT, through ACT UP Philadelphia, through We the People. FIGHT is one of the model, one-stop shopping 00:37:00. You have to realize that when people don't—if you get people—a lot of times, a lot of times poor people or people with HIV and everything, you give them a referral, you tell them to go to the dentist, we have a dentist here. People go to nutrition. We have nutrition here. If you want to go to a drug program, we have a drug program here. You want a case manager, we have a case manager here. You've got a library to research stuff right there. We have Project TEACH outside, we have all that here. One-stop shopping. That's all came through the idea of We the People. People don't like to go to different places. We have people 00:38:00here that could go to an appointment with people and follow up with people, because some people still live alone so we had that. This was the model came out of We the People. Me and Jane talk about it a lot; we would like to have a drop-in center. She's working on that 'cause we really need a place for people to come. You have to realize that people have some behaviors. One thing about it is, if people don't have no places to go, so what they going to do is, somebody will pick them up, they'll have unprotected sex, and that's it. Because it's about survival. When people don't have houses, they going to 00:39:00do any needs anyways to get something to eat. It just how it goes. So we talk about the epidemic, people live a long time, but people are still getting this. People are still getting hepatitis C and different other sexually—young people. We also have a place for young people to go. We have a lot of homeless population in Philadelphia. This is like a thing. This is good what we have here but we need more people. We can't—FIGHT could do but so much. FIGHT could just do so much. It's a safe space. Like we don't mistreat people, you're welcome here. People notice that. People know that when you come here, you're here. People know when you come here you have to wait for—some places you go, you have and wait for an appointment. People sometimes need services right then. They need somebody to come out and see them right then. They need somebody to follow up and see how they doing when they leave here. They need somebody to go to the appointment with them or take the x-ray, basically just be there and talk to them and say, "Hey, everything going to be okay." We have 00:40:00a faith base there; knowing people that whatever you choose as your higher power, they love you. You're not going to go to hell. Sometimes—even though I still fight with that now. Because we still have people still realize that, "Hey you gay, you going to hell," and that kept me away. And even though too my fellowship talk about it's the spiritual part of the fellowship and that's what I learned even through that. I tell people that it's okay and I've got to learn how to accept who I am. And it takes time because people got a lot of trauma in their life. People still come to me and they get abused, don't have no place to go. It's just so much that it could—I have a tape on YouTube of people like me and 00:41:00the person done a thing in Philadelphia. I have like, they come out with a space suit and then they talking about We the People and stuff like that. They done a thing so it's just so much but We the People helped a lot of people. You'll hear about that. You'll hear a lot of people—because I think what had happened is— Sometimes when people come to a service place— Because what happened is, it was supposed to be run by people with HIV 00:42:00but what's done is, it came to be run with people who weren't HIV and then it got lost somehow. It got lost, somehow it got lost. You have to realize that, when I was a case manager here, sometimes people trust you. Sometimes, even from another agency, even at We the People, we seeing you and people trust you. They used to call you. You understand? It was kind of hard because we trust people, people trust you, they trust you and want to talk to you and that's what people need. Sometimes people really need that. And that was one thing that We the People gave people because people could come and get that love and caring and FIGHT doing it. FIGHT has kind of ascended to We the People. Because 00:43:00some of FIGHT's services like support groups and doctor services were all part of that at We the People. You'll probably talk to Tyrone Smith, I don't know if you talked to Tyrone. He was the first president at We the People [Tyrone Smith served as the assistant to the first president, Temple Minner, and then as acting president, upon Minner's resignation]. Joe Cronauer who worked for City of Philadelphia, he was the president, one of the presidents at We the People too, so.

REED: When you first came into We the People through BEBASHI and before you were on the Board of We the People, what sorts of programs or services did they have there? Did you do things like go to the dinners or participate in any of the support groups?

HAYES: Yeah. A lot of the time—I helped started one. When I first came in we called like a Triple Trouble. Triple Trouble, me and Curtis, he passed away, it was for people who was HIV, people who was mental health, and people who had a drug problem. So we call them "Triple Trouble." 00:44:00And we used to meet there. And I'm sitting there—see one thing about it, I used to like sit in there, open up to people. Because sometimes I could talk but I let people know I know what they going through. A lot of time I used to sit there and talk to people in the group, "Oh you don't know what's going on. You haven't been there," and then I say, "Yeah, I've been there. I've been living with the virus—" When I tell people now people realize that, "God, you been living that long?" Because I choose to let people know. It was risky. It was risky sometimes. It was risky that, "Oh you come around, you know that man's got that HIV." But I done that service. I seen the doctor down at We the People. I really got that trust. I needed it. When I first came there—because right now I would say I helped build the We the People. That was one thing about it, help, when we first came there but there was the Board, 00:45:00they was real small and everything. So I would be able to form and help to fight for some of the programs that we have there down at We the People. We had a feed program. Madeline used to come down here. People used to come down there for a meal. People used to come down and take a shower and all that stuff down there. Work at the desk down there and be a part of it. Part of the services we built before with David Fair. I don't know if you talked to David Fair yet. And David Fair who really was good, whose unbelievable work for AACO really—we had battles. We had battles and stuff but we was able to help build the different service that people need.

REED: You talked a little about Kiyoshi and you mentioned how 00:46:00he smoked marijuana on TV. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?

HAYES: Well, he was—when he first came up the marijuana he found out that people—a lot of times, it was normal that people used to have the pill for their appetite. But to prove it that marijuana do give people appetite—because people was wasting and everything. So one time he done it. He called the reporter and here go this man smoking marijuana on TV and that's how Kiyoshi was. Kiyoshi was all the way back in Martin Luther King, the civil rights things. Kiyoshi been around a long time and he would do anything for anybody. Anything you needed, seemed like Kiyoshi knew. They say when they move his house, Kiyoshi had everything in the house there. Anything you need, 00:47:00Kiyoshi do. Right now, people could not afford a medication, but Kiyoshi would see if you got that medication. That's the kind of person that he was. And he was there, he available. If you call Kiyoshi, Kiyoshi answered the phone. Kiyoshi went and see you in the hospital. He was very outspoken. I remember a couple times when we was locked up in DC and they went to grab Kiyoshi and I got so used to him being the mentor and when the cops grabbed him and John Bell said, "Roy, stop!" 'cause Kiyoshi know what he's doing. 00:48:00I thought that they was—kind of handled him a little rough in DC and stuff like that. But that said, Kiyoshi, he grabbed, he laid there on the street a lot. He be all in the cops' face. It probably would have been rough now and thank God, that he not around. I think the tactics that we use now— See, you have to realize right now since you got the Facebook and the Twitter, all that stuff, it's different. But I'm from the old school and sometimes when I protest, I forget—I'm so used to the old way. I'm so used to laying on the ground and shouting but right now it's some other things that the younger people—technology changed so much that usually like the fax machine, call, and do the stuff like that but so many other ways that you could get the message out now. But Kiyoshi would be 00:49:00—he was a brave man. He was a hero to people with HIV. We really miss him; to the day he died he was there. Because I remember going down there knowing that he was living with the virus a long time and another person that was down there with Temple Minner who Kiyoshi told me that, and I thought my T cells must have been pretty good then and Temple had his T cells at like five. And that's when I realized that, "Hey you can live with that." He say his T cells was five and he been having the five T-cells for five years but he was right there. He was just there. It's just so much I could say, but 00:50:00I'm glad that they doing it about Kiyoshi and We the People because people really need to know and I think a lot of time people with new diagnoses need to know some of the pioneers who was there for them. Because sometimes people don't really realize to think about the history. The history of the epidemic in Philadelphia. How so many people died, died because we could live. Sometimes I think people forget that. A lot of people died so because we could live. A lot of people got locked up, beaten, you understand? Abused 00:51:00and all this stuff. I remember one time we was in DC and, it was crazy; and we needed medication. Each time, when we get locked up, they have to take each one of us to the hospital with the cops. So we said, "Hey! It's AZT time!" So the cops have to count about 40 of us; so he had to take each one of us to the hospital at the time and they put they gloves on and everything. So everybody said, "Hey! We need our AIDS medication!" [laughter]. It was so funny. It was so funny. One time, we was in the wagon, over in New York, and right then I guess Kiyoshi was in there and was [in] this wagon about at least 20 minutes. But we had that fun. It been some times that I was in there by myself. I said, "Damn. I'm African American. I'm the only African American in here." 00:52:00Then right there I'm thinking about what happening in the '60s, they could leave me in there and everything. Then one time when we chained ourselves to the White House fence, then everybody had a handcuff around their hands—These are some of the things that we done. It was all worthwhile.

REED: Can you talk more about the day that you chained yourself to the White House fence?

HAYES: We went to the White House to—I can't, we went there to— We wanted them to lower—I don't know who was the president back then, but we went there I think to tell them to lower the medication. That was one time that we went there and just put the handcuffs, person had the other handcuff, then we go. So they actually take this up and saw each other walk until we get out. There's a picture on my Facebook page of the latest one where me and Judy Davis 00:53:00and she was really a part of the thing; and it's my Facebook page just say Roy Hayes and I'll get your name and get a friend. Go through my pictures and you'll see some pictures of the last time that we went to and we wanted them to lower the price. And so what we done was we put pill bottles on top of the White House fence and everything, me and Judy Davis. You can see there there's some pictures on there. But like, that time, when we went there we chained for them to lower the medication 00:54:00down and that was in DC. Then we went in Philadelphia. We, me and David Fair, we took over the DPA [Department of Public Assistance] office on Broad and Spring Garden, through We the People, and we knock everything off of their desk right down on Broad. I went crazy. I see David Fair going crazy and Kiyoshi going crazy. So we start knocking and all the people in the DPA office was running out the doors. They called the state police in there to scare us out. I ain't never forget that. It's a lot of newspapers and a lot of pictures I think is down at the William Way [LGBT Community Center] too. You been down there? Yeah it's a lot of stuff in there 00:55:00about that. About some of the different things that we started and stuff like that. Because I had a lot of pictures but since I had a fire, a lot of these pictures was gone but it's some pictures around of some of the things that what we done. I'll try and search through some of these things for you.

REED: Do you have any other stories of the different people who were involved in We the People? Any memories that stand out that are really strong?

HAYES: Yeah, Darrell Davis, you know he was, he's still around. What do you mean? Explain to me what you're talking about there.

REED: Just trying to get a sense of what it was like back then and any memories maybe that you have of him? What brings him to mind?

HAYES: Because Darrell, he was one of the persons down at We the People who volunteered down there and everything. He was good. Then we had Arnold Jackson, he passed away. And Arnold Jackson really think if you drink your own piss, it will bring your T cell count up and I tried that. It was nasty; we found out that it didn't work. We tried all these things that Arnold Jackson—"Hey," you know, he would say, "if you drink your own pee, it should bring your T cell count up." Well that was proven that it didn't work. [laughter] It was Arnold Jackson 00:57:00was around. You also have, had also what you call, at 37th and Chestnut, every Tuesday, we used to cook dinner. Everybody from We the People, if you poor and everything, used to go over there and we all volunteer and cook for people every Tuesday over at the Lutheran Church over at 37th Street. And I'll have to find his number and give it to you because he was very involved with We the People as far as the cooking and keeping that going. Even though after We the People closed up, he kept on having that, they kept on that side, the dinner, and I still think they have that dinner over there now on 37th street. My memory is going, but I just check my phone and give you— So that was what we done. We had a clothing there—people need clothes. That was also We the People. 00:58:00Wow, wow. I know a lot of the earlier people down at We the People is passed away. Some of the real warriors that was down at We the People is not down here anymore.

REED: Do you have any memories about any of the people who were the early warriors who didn't survive that you could talk about?

HAYES: Yeah, we had Kurt Dobson who helped start the support group, who was a real warrior down there who worked with— Like I said, Arnold Jackson, he was 00:59:00really—his name is Jones. Yeah that was his name. The person I'm talking about is named Jones. I can't think of his first name now. It's a lot who was there during that period of time.

REED: In addition to talking about We the People, you've talked about a lot of work that you did with ACT UP; and what was the relationship between We the People and ACT UP?

HAYES: 01:00:00We had our meeting at St. Luke's [The Church of Saint Luke and The Epiphany], right? ACT UP helped out some of the things that we had. A lot of the people that, early on, who volunteered at We the People was people that were a part of ACT UP before they came to a service place. A lot of times when we needed something, when We the People needed something, ACT UP used to go. When the funds came to ACT UP to start a service, that mean ACT UP have to take the back door because a lot of times federal funds tell you, "Hey, you can't protest. You can't protest against us." A lot of times the people who worked there couldn't 01:01:00say but so much. There were a lot of people there who used to be early on for ACT UP and some of them got jobs with the City and then they couldn't do what they need to. But David Fair was always, he was, like, straight up. We also was involved in this program called Calcutta House and the nursing home, let me tell you, Betak was the nursing home up in Germantown. And they would get ready, 'cause the neighborhood people did not want it. So what we done is, we had a hunger strike and one of the members of We the People almost died 01:02:00and she— So we had a hunger strike, a weekend hunger strike, and one of members of We the People, she almost died because they wanted to move this place out of Germantown; but it was a place that people could be there until their last day. It was like before Calcutta House. So we went there, we all went up. We the People took a group, and we said we weren't going to eat until we allowed Betak to stay up there. So it finally closed up then we fought for 01:03:00the Calcutta House. They got a place on Girard Avenue. Of course they got two places now because we realized that people need to have a place to go for their last days. But what had happened is, some of the people there at Calcutta House, we realized that, hey, We the People, we fought, some of the people living long. Some of the people still live there before they realized people living one or two years, three years and stuff, four years. So they got two parts: they got people there who short term that will pass in a short period of time, then they got 01:04:00another place where people could stay there a long period of time. They got another place up near 20th and Girard. Then We the People also arrived and going to the nursing homes. Because what happened is, people with HIV, they were not turning the people; people would have bedsores and everything. So what happened is, we would make a surprise visit. We made the City—because the nurse who was treating the people [who] didn't have a family member—so what happened is people from We the People, volunteers from We the People, we used to go up to the Philadelphia nursing home and we protest one time, had a sit-in in the nursing home until they make it better. 01:05:00It was horrible. Feces and everything. People just sitting in there and everything, so we made them until eventually they closed that wing down 'cause it was really— These are just some of the things that We the People. We was like a watchdog on so many places that people didn't take care of people. And then we also fought for one time, that people who pass away, families didn't have no money to bury them or cremate them, so we did have funds; they could get up to $750 towards cremation. What happened was, they stopped that. We the People protested and everything. People needed air conditioning 'cause sometimes—then they had funds for that one period of time, then they stopped that. So you've got to realize all these things through ACT UP and We the People that we fought for, but sometimes when you laid back, but then again, "Hey, I got mine's," Later with everybody else, they take these funds away. Also a lot of times came from people abusing the system too. 01:06:00Sometimes, people was getting the air conditioning. Because people needed treatment. I guess this comes from being in treatment. So they said, "Hey," so they took it from people. Then we also fought for people to get help with their rent. Now they get like $1500. It came from $500 they could get towards their rent. We realized that, hey, when you get a place, people want the first month's and the last month's. Ain't enough money. So what happened was now they get $1500, but that came to the point that they stopped that, because what happened was, people was not paying their rent for the whole during Christmas 01:07:00time and then go for the grant every year. So now they say, "Hey, if you need a place you have to go to your doctor. You have to fill out all these forms." It used to be a short form because we fought for that; people don't have time to fill out all these forms. So right now you have to go through all this paperwork, the doctor fill it out—"do you need a place?"—and all this stuff here. It's just so much that through We the People and ACT UP—a lot of times you couldn't just say We the 01:08:00People because We the People was so much a part of ACT UP 'cause there was a lot of people from We the People part of ACT UP. ACT UP was hand-in-hand. When we need to do something we just go to ACT UP. Other agencies, sometimes they, off the record, when they needed something they would go through ACT UP, but they knew they couldn't do it. They know they couldn't do it but they know that they got some allies that they—cause we always used to call the agencies there our allies. It's just like they tell people who not positive, allies. Sometimes agencies could be an ally, because some things they can give us. Sometimes they might give us space to have a meeting 01:09:00or stuff like that. Or instead of funds they might give us tokens. You know, 'cause ACT UP, we don't take money from any governments. And we said in our meeting, "we don't take any money from any government." If you're a cop, we tell them, "Get the eff out." That what we would do for ACT UP. You ever see a ACT UP thing? Oh you seen it, right? Our ground rules and what we say and do in ACT UP? You ever see our newcomers packet that we give out at ACT UP? And what we do, we don't take anything. We get money from like Bread and Roses or somebody might donate something for us or stuff. Or sometimes we ask members and stuff to prepare to pass this around. I send my support group here to ACT UP. We got on our calendar, every first Monday of the month, they go to ACT UP and since they going to ACT UP, maybe I'll donate me a couple pack of tokens for them to go because they need it to go. That's part of them coming to the support group because y'all need to know what's going on. Because right now 01:10:00they just went up to Harrisburg because what happened is they took cash assistance. That cash assistance is very important because you have to realize that, let's say people getting out of treatment or something or people getting out of prison, if they get a room, they could get food stamps. But food stamps you cannot buy soap, you can't buy different personal stuff that you do. So what happened was they took that cash assistance away from them and that was something. And some of the places that people lived, they were putting them out 'cause they want the money part. That is what 01:11:00some of the issues that ACT UP is working on now, along with also with Medicaid assistance. They got so much money left over so they said why don't you put that money towards housing to house people with HIV/AIDS? It's just sitting there. Right now they fighting also for cash assistance so when persons get out of jail, you have to stay in a halfway house, you can't get no job. And also at ACT UP, we work with some other agency as far as the death penalty. Work with young people, what happened is, you've got to realize 01:12:00that when the person who's young— See one thing about ACT UP, we just don't work for HIV/AIDS. We work for other organizations, other people. Because we realized that today, if a young person is in jail for murder, why should he be there the rest of his life? Because he's young, comes from maybe an abuse family, didn't have a family. So what kind of rehabilitation are you giving him just by locking him up? It's some other things that you need people to do and that's why we try to fight. That's why we fight, give them a second chance in life. That's why like in Philadelphia, we fought also for Ban the Box and Second Chance Act and things like that there, when a person get out of jail, give him a fair interview. Because right now they look on there and you know the City of Philadelphia 01:13:00you have to give them a fair interview. If you realize that this person get out of jail and they don't give you a fair interview or call you back, you could go to a lawyer and ask a lawyer to fight that case for you: why they didn't give you a fair interview? Because you have a right; because you realize if you don't give that person a chance, they'll go back out there and do the same thing again. And that come hand-in-hand also with HIV because they'll hustle on the street or they'll rob somebody. Or they'll go out there and hustle. They'll go back out there and sell their body or doing something, not just an illegal thing at all. HIV come from people being poor and everything. A place to stay. So just that's why we try to tell them. It's hand-in-hand. People be saying, "What HIV have to do with this?" It do. It's hand-in-hand with that and you got to realize that—that's why over at the other place where you work, over at 01:14:00ICJ [Institute for Community Justice] they got a place for different markets and other places will hire people with a record and that's good. And it's a lot. And this way we have a place that people could come who not positive. That's good that you have a place that people could come. And one thing about coming here [Philadelphia FIGHT], too, hand-in-hand, if you don't have no insurance we will still see you. So that's something. Because healthcare is a right. I mean people have to realize, everybody should have healthcare. Nobody should be not denied of healthcare and that's one thing I like about coming here and all this came you to come through all this go right back to We the People. Because Jane was around with We the People. Jane was protesting with us and other people here. And I know she grateful and I'm grateful. I'm a product of We the People and ACT UP. 01:15:00If it wasn't for me walking in that door, I wouldn't be here today.

REED: After you had been going to We the People for a while, how soon after that did you get on the Board and how did that change your relationship with We the People?

HAYES: Well it was kind of like, different, because they realize that Tyrone was going and they asked me, "Do I want the Board?" It was a lot. First of all, I thought I wasn't a warrior, I wasn't smart enough to be on the Board, but it was a learning experience for me. It was a learning experience for me to learn what was going on. It was a lot of challenges because 01:16:00when you're on the Board, there's some decisions that you have to make as a professional being on the Board, being on the other side. And anyways, I got to separate myself from other things. Still be there, but I'm still the Board president. I got to be there to get the checks signed, I had to be there to watch the books, I had to be there to be in meetings and stuff all the time, make decisions and stuff. And sometimes it was really hard decisions that we really had to make about different stuff. And sometimes decisions had to come to staff, some of the things I didn't like but I'm just chairing 01:17:00the Board; I'm just the Board president because you got other people voting and stuff. Sometimes I just have to be neutral to a lot of stuff with the other Board things and all that stuff there. When they stopped paying the service people that was hard for me. I always wanted it to run by people with HIV but sometime the government said, "Hey if you guys get this money you've got to have people with degrees. You got to have this," and all the life experience of people didn't matter if you didn't have that degree. So that was a big thing for me. That was a big thing that being here—'cause 01:18:00a lot of paperwork, even on being the case manager here, maybe because I did go to Temple but it was a lot like, 95% paperwork and 5% dealing with the people and I couldn't understand that. Because lot of things maybe I'd done wrong. Because if you need a refrigerator, I'd sign the check and the people say, "Hey, you can't give these people the money for the refrigerator." Because a lot of mistakes that I made, but to me, look this person HIV, he needs a refrigerator. This person needs money to bury her son. They say, "You can't use this money, Roy." And they didn't want to pay for it but that's how—you understand what I'm saying? It's simple when somebody comes to you and you ain't got no money to bury your son and you HIV positive. But the city and the state, they don't realize that because you got to realize that the money for certain—it was really some hard decisions to do. Man, I was glad when I was off 'cause it was a challenge meeting people; because I was that one used to go to these houses, meeting and bang on the table. They used to not then go to these board meetings and 01:19:00some of the guys, if they ain't doing they job, "I make a motion that we move him," because I was a part of TPAC [The Philadelphia AIDS Consortium]. It was rough 'cause the person wasn't doing it. He was just putting it in his pocket and he talking about sometimes giving a Executive Director a $40,000 raise. Where is the money going for the people who HIV positive? And that's the thing about—and they say, "Roy, you have be humble now. You're so-and-so. You can't be knocking these tables over and everything," and I forget. Because I realize they sitting there and they just worried about theirself. One of the persons used to go TPAC, I used to call him Mafia. They the mafia. Y'all ain't worried about 01:20:00people. They're supposed to be concerned; y'all ain't worried about people with HIV, you're just worried about your agency and that's how it came. People worried about who could get this grant. You sit at the table and everybody get the clients, they put some consumers—you know I hate that word, consumers because consumer you go to the store—people with HIV, they bring them in there, put them on the HIV planning and when it comes time for them to vote, they'll vote for the agency where they get the case manager from. But they never sit down and people don't know what they voting on. So one time I made a motion that, me and a couple other people with HIV, y'all need to bring some people down from HRSA [Health Resources and Services Administration] and tell people how to read grants before they raise their hand and vote on it. Because people raising they hand 'cause of that Executive Director where they maybe get their tokens from, or go there and get a 01:21:00food voucher, or get a certificate to one of these drug stores. They don't how to read that grant, what the percentage is. You vote on percentage, not money. So when you raise your hand, $1 million to Case Managers, $1 million go to food, and only so many agencies get it. I really learned that. I went to HRSA. Explain to me how to read that and that was a learning experience for me, being able to make these decisions, hard decisions. Look after the people that, who I love their agency, but 01:22:00I have to think about me, not worry about people don't like me and that was really hard. It really was hard. Because a lot of times we had people had bad feelings when they came out of here. "That Roy, I wish you don't come to the meetings," all that stuff. I got to the point, my feelings was hurt. I reached, I ain't coming back to so-and-so. I got right back there. Somebody told me one time, "Roy, it's not about you. It's about the people." That hurt me. Some new person came in there, she was HIV positive, just came in there. I was mad and upset. She said, "Roy it's not about you. You doing that for all the people." Then I realized that, "You right, I have to put all my bias aside." What I'm here for are the people 'cause other people are looking at me, how I'll react, if I want to quit. Because one time, I was going to quit. A lot of times, I just say, "Look, is this worth it? What is it I'm really doing this for?" When I be sitting home, something came over me. Like you said, Kiyoshi and We the People and that's why I'm here. That's why I'm here all this time living with that. I think if I stop doing 01:23:00what I'm doing, I wouldn't be here. That's how I feel. It's a way of life for Roy.

REED: So you mentioned working on the Triple Trouble Support Group and being on the We the People Board. What about your involvement with Prison Health News and was that a part of We the People?

HAYES: The Prison Health News, this came through We the People and BEBASHI. What happened is, we used to write people who was in prison, especially people who 01:24:00used to have no person to write. We had a person that he spit on a cop, and they was giving him 25 to life. Greg. And that's why we said we need to have people to write. People need to have somebody to write, pen pals so we started that. And then out of that came the Prison News. FIGHT took that on through Critical Path to be able to write people, answer people's letters, send them information. Kiyoshi used to send people information. People need information about the medication or information about that, Kiyoshi and other people at We the People used to write people and send them information. "Can you get this for me? Can you send me this?" So that's how the Prison News started. Then also we started the newsletter 01:25:00that Kiyoshi was writing. Kiyoshi used to write different articles about people, different things about medication. He wrote the standard of care, what the basic care of people with HIV really needed. And with some help, he done that, the standard of care, and presented it and it was good. Then also, We the People used to have Alive and Kicking where we used to write different articles, people used to write poems in there. It was like a resource, like FIGHT got a resource here, resource for different AIDS agencies, or food banks and different places. People used to write their stories in there, 01:26:00how they came to We the People and stuff like that. All that stuff, you'll find at the William Way. All the Alive and Kicking, but Kiyoshi got all that. He was a writer; he was a great writer. We used to distribute all around the city. The newsletter was really good 'cause we were able to write about people behind walls, people put their artwork in there, and that do 'em good. They write the authors over at ICJ; they got an editor over there that write that to different people 'cause through that, through ACT UP we had the prison thing. The prison thing, we able to have a person go and visit people that was in the jail. That's one of our goals. When people go there, make sure that they treated right 01:27:00in the jail or tell them about some of the programs when they get out. Where they could go 'cause that's something that when you go, they put you out early in the morning, you don't know where to go. And that stuff still happens. But you have somebody go in there and be able to talk to you and tell you about different programs where you could go to. And we just don't say, come to Philadelphia FIGHT; we work with other agencies. That's the same thing with, like, We the People. We don't just say, "Hey got to this place." You choose where you want to go, where you feel comfortable. Especially in the Latino—a Latino is not going to come out of their neighborhood. They gone stay in their neighborhood. There was a lot of the times when had what you called the Positive Voices down at 01:28:00We the People, we used to go to the schools and tell them—to the high schools—they stopped that. We used to give them an education, now we can't talk about condoms unless we get permission from the teachers. We used to go to the high school and leave the condoms and tell people about STDs. And then we had Positive Voices, the same thing where we got an outreach team here that go out, well we used to have Positive Voices out of We the People. People with HIV would go to the churches, go to the schools, go to the different health fairs and talk to people about HIV. "I'm a person living with HIV" and everything and give people hope and stuff and different programs. That came out of We the People. Hassan Gibbs, he's another one, who was a part of We the People at the time, who was very involved with the Positive Voices team. Hassan used to be the one 01:29:00that used to work here with Project TEACH and he used to tell people for the update—and he took that over when Kiyoshi got like that and used to have all the updates about all the different medications came out and everything. Hepatitis C, stuff like that. We was working here when he took over. He used to teach here. He used to run Project TEACH class and he used to update people every Wednesday—we called it the T Cell Alumni and let people know about all the updated medication coming down the pipe. So it's a lot. It was a lot that in that old building 01:30:00—'cause a lot of people who's here now came out of We the People. A lot of agencies came through We the People. It's amazing how We the People, people fighting funds through ACT UP. It got down to Action AIDS, the [Philadelphia AIDS] Taskforce, all these different places that you probably could see where people could come to and feel comfortable.

REED: So thinking about today, how does AIDS affect your life today?

HAYES: 01:31:00I guess it's okay. My thing is, I really think, like I said, my part is that people will suffer. Sometimes I think I could do more with so much hearing on the news and stuff like that about the Republicans, Obamacare, and people gonna change that. And the fact that I'm still fighting. But then I always think about, "Hey, what's going to happen when Roy is gone?" Because sometimes I just realize that I'm here for a purpose. That's my life, that's why I'm here. I told you I'm working ten hours a day but sometimes I be down there for, like, 20 hours a day because I like being here. I like doing what I need to do. Some people realize they got recovery and HIV, that's all you know. I enjoy my life. I do some other things. God is, through living with HIV, blessed me a lot of things. A person like me, I could tell you from early on in my life and not with a GED even though I went to Temple 01:32:00—that counts as a lot. Through the higher power, through God, through the wisdom—that's what I think about. Sometimes it's good to have that pain, it's all well and good. But God has blessed me to be able to help a lot of people. When people tell me that, "Roy, you helped me," that's my reward. If I could go today, I could be grateful that I helped a lot of people. I met a lot of people. I realized that God got me here for a purpose. I just seen my doctor today. He said I might just have to lose some weight. 01:33:00I met a lot of people. Being able to sit with a lot of doctors and a lot of different things, and my family loves me. I remember my nephew, he's like 13, and he said, "Uncle Roy, I know you gay but I love you," and when I hear that—I hear that. They love me and everything, because I always used to not go around my family 'cause I thought they would not accept me but a lot of times I realize it was me. It was me. I could be around people with HIV and they could accept me. I felt more comfortable around people with HIV for a long time. But when I came around my family, my family 01:34:00really loved me. I had two kids, I had never seen my kids 'cause I signed my life over to the kids because I thought I was going to commit suicide after I caught them in the bed, after I caught this guy in the bed with my wife but that's okay. I got a goddaughter; she's trans and she's positive and we talk. God put her in my life for me. Her father hated her 'cause she was gay and she was trans but we talk. She get on my nerves, but that's it. A lot of other people. In my recovery, I have a lot of people. Because when I share 01:35:00that I'm HIV positive, people will come over to me, say "yeah, Roy. Can I talk to you? You give me some courage that you could open up and say you're HIV." And I've been like that for ten years. I was afraid to talk about it 'cause I figured that nobody would love me. Not just in the field, even out there, when I hear that I say, "Wow. That's great." If I could help somebody, I don't have to hold that no longer. Stuff like that. And the end of the day, that's why I do what I do.

REED: And what issues related to AIDS are most important to the communities that you most identify 01:36:00 with?

HAYES: Well, it's housing, jobs, and also medical. Medical. Because even though we get medical—because a lot of times, people still can't afford to get what they want. For me right now, even though I can get social security, I still have to pay co-pay. We still got a long way to do with that. And also, support systems, how can we reach a lot of people, especially our young people. Especially our young people. And that's what I see. 01:37:00I see a lot of these younger people coming in there. It's amazing. It's amazing—I see a lot of people come to the library [AIDS Library of Philadelphia]. There used to be a time that people would not come. And one thing I like, too, the young people come out and they don't care who HIV or care if they gay. They don't have to hide. That's a lot of freedom that I see. And this is where they can come here and this is a safe place where they can come to the library and get some education here. But we still have a long way to go. And hopefully before I go, there'll be—we have a drop-in center, we have the young place [Y-HEP Adolescent and Young Adult Health Center] where the people could go and take a shower over there. Because like right now the epidemic is not going to go away. So right now we have to try 01:38:00to save our young people because our young people is going to be the ones that going to make this stuff go away. When we all gone, the old-heads gone, they'll have to keep fighting. And my thing is to try to keep more people fighting. The war's not over and I even think we've got to think for this election. This election is very important and it's got a lot to do with HIV. It's got a lot to do with healthcare, housing, and everything. If we don't get out and if young people don't get out and vote, I don't know what's going to happen. You talk about that today. I ain't never seen 01:39:00what's going on now with some of the things that I hear. I just hope that this is over. Sometimes I hate to look at the news but I just have to look at that crazy ass on TV. Because he's hateful, man. Hateful. And that's it.

REED: Is there anything that we haven't talked about so far today that—?

HAYES: No, I don't think. So if you need anything else, you could always call me.